4 August 2021 20:24
Back to work!
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
nonesensedVacation is over and I'm back at the clinic, dealing with patients and schedules again. Was a wonderful summer but it's adulting time once more.
I've read some really great books this summer! Will likely write a rec post in a near future :)
Oh, andbardsley, I've both finished reading The Angel of the Crows and gotten my hands on The Witness for the Dead (finally!!), so I'm ready to discuss the first anytime and should be done with the second tomorrow :D
I've read some really great books this summer! Will likely write a rec post in a near future :)
Oh, and
bardsley, I've both finished reading The Angel of the Crows and gotten my hands on The Witness for the Dead (finally!!), so I'm ready to discuss the first anytime and should be done with the second tomorrow :D
no subject
It's good to know that you had an enjoyable vacation. I hope work manages to be enjoyable too.
no subject
The Witness for the Dead
My brain decided Thara Celehar was One Of My Favorites when I read The Goblin Emperor despite him only showing up physically for a fairly low number of pages. I was therefore both beyond thrilled to read a whole trilogy starring him and worried that the "headcanon!Celehar" I had wouldn't match up with this new story. But I ended up pleasantly surprised; this Celehar is exactly the kind of person I'd extrapolated from his scenes in the first book. Was it like that for you too? And what did you think about this less court-focused setting in this world + the new cast of characters we got introduced to?
Oh, btw, I got the edition that's 318 pages long, but everywhere online it says it's supposed to be 348 pages. I'm assuming that's an early typo that's getting re-copied to websites like Amazon, Goodreads, etc, but just in case - do you remember what's on the last page of the edition you read? XD
The Angel of the Crows
I really liked the re-imaginings of the original Holmes mysteries - which isn't an easy thing to pull off with me as the audience because I know most of them by heart XD I've read/seen so many takes on Holmes mysteries that either follow the original plot too closely or give the original plot a big middle finger. I felt this take on them showed the original stories a lot of love while putting a new spin on it all. And I'm so happy that Crow & Doyle got to actually like and care about each other and people in general! I am so tired for "antisocial!Holmes" being the modern flandernization of the character, and whether one ships them or not, the Holmes & Watson relationship is so often "modernized" to being terribly dysfunctional and unhealthy when I read the original as fairly sweet and caring; I am soooo tired of that terrible trend. This was a breath of fresh air! Also, I love how much GENDER this book has going! Both when it comes to Crow and Doyle *chef's kiss*
I think the only thing I didn't fully embrace was the whole "angels all over the world" premise, but that's a me-thing, not a poor-writing-thing. It definitely helped that the angels aren't "proof of one religion being Right" and are likely named after the religious angels rather than _actually being them_ - but I always get distracted by What This Implies when creatures that are closely tied to a specific religion or mythology show up in a fantasy setting. It pulled me out of the story a little at times.
What were your impressions of this book? Pros and cons?
PS. Work has been crazy busy already, but I'm doing my best to keep a non-burnout pace for once and I think I might be succeeding :D
no subject
I’m pleased to learn that you have been able to keep a healthy work/life balance so far and avoid burnout. I sincerely hope that continues. I also hope that our discussion of books can be a small part of the recreation side of your life. I have been very much looking forward to talking about both of these books with you.
Also, I encourage you to rant as much as you feel inclined. I will likely enjoy it very much.
Spoilers to Follow:
Angel of the Crows
While I remember the original Holmes stories far less vividly than you do, I have the same impression of this story treating the original stories with love while being an original enough take on them to be worth reading. Like you, I also really appreciated that Crow was not depicted as being sociopathic or antisocial, as seen with Holmes-types in BBC Sherlock and the Robert Downey Jr. films. I also appreciate that Crow and Doyle seemed to be good for each other rather than in an unhealthy relationship.
Curiously, while religion is a hugely triggering issue for me personally, I was able to completely detach the book angels from an association with any specific religion or religions. I think this may be because angels as depicted in the book are not all that similar to angels as they are described as part of the religion I was raised in, Mormonism. Mormon angels are not winged, for example. For Angel of the Crows type angels wings were their most obvious physical characteristic. Randomly, I genuinely appreciated how different angels had different types of wings.
Overall, my feelings about the angels were that of concern. Are they okay as life forms? They seem somewhat cosmically screwed over. Being Nameless sounds potentially terrifying. Also, I’m curious as to why angels in the one particular city—the one Crow said he’d go to if he ever was thrown out of London—developed differently than angels elsewhere in the world.
I thought the way Crow dealt with not being able to lie was interesting. It reminded far more of fae than angels.
The other supernatural characters were overall enjoyable as well. I have a weakness for vampires in fiction, so the Moriarty vampires were interesting. I did not like the original Holmes story The Final Problem and was unimpressed with its Moriarty. I feel like subsequent authors creating Moriarty-like characters cannot help but improve on the original because the bar is set so low.
On the topic of vampires, I do not know how I feel about the gender dynamics among vampires in the story. The same can be said of most of the other gender-related things in the story. I enjoyed seeing it. I just am at a loss as to what to make of it.
Take Doyle, for example. I am not certain if Doyle is a trans man or if Doyle is a gender-nonconforming cis woman who chose to live as a man because living as a woman is too societally confining, or another gender identity altogether. Please understand, I fully affirm trans men are men, trans women are women, and non-binary identities are valid. I just do not feel like have a sense of what Doyle’s gender identity is. Doyle was nonetheless an interesting character.
I also do not know how I feel about the idea that angels are all women (or women-like beings?) but perceived as men because of social biases. Is it supposed to be funny? Is it supposed to make me want to kick people in the head? What is gained by them being this way?
Another source of confusion ** trigger warning, sexual assault ** was the book implying that Crow was sexually assaulted, and was that played for laughs? I am very much not okay with that if that was the case. However, I am not sure that it was. People can have multiple reasons for having sex. Asexual people can still choose to have sex. I do not feel like Crow offering sex to Doyle to set right their relationship was a needed or at all well-handled element of the story. ** end trigger warning **
My personal pet-peeve of the book was the Ripper plotline. I cannot get over the knowledge that these were real murders of real women. Seeing them blended with fantastical fictional elements bothered me. I felt sickened whenever the story diverted to this plotline.
My final impression is that while I liked the book I did not love it. That is why I did not buy it after I finished the library copy. By contrast, I bought the Kindle Edition with Audio of The Goblin Emperor immediately after completing the book and have reread/relistened to it more than once.
The Witness for the Dead
First, on the matter of page counts, I am utterly confused. I have the Kindle Edition. I checked and it is 234 pages long, so sayeth the tiny print at the bottom of the About the Author page. If you find out more about this, please let me know.
Thara Celehar was a personal favorite of mine in The Goblin Emperor too, although that book had no shortage of favorites for me. The Celehar of this story matched my expectations of his characterization too. I am pleased to be able to spend more time with him.
However, this was a far different kind of book with a more linear and shorter story. I did not feel as caught up in it as I did in the world of The Goblin Emperor.
I did not like the inclusion of ghouls into this world’s mythical population.
None of the new characters grabbed me. I think Pel-Thenhior is being set up as a new love interest for Celehar. Beyond wanting Celehar to be happy, I can’t bring myself to care much.
You mentioned that this book is part of a trilogy. I kind of feel like next to The Goblin Emperor, The Witness for the Dead is kind of a third of a book. The Goblin Emperor had two coup attempts and Maia’s adjustment to court. This book just did not have that much happening in it or at least not that much that was of interest to me personally.
I know I have compared it too much to The Goblin Emperor which is a very different type of book but I would not have been as interested in reading it in the first place if not for the shared universe. While I was ultimately disappointed by The Witness for the Dead I will likely read the sequels.
So, what are your thoughts on my thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Want to throw a chair at my head? Is there anything I did not mention that you want to discuss?
I’m looking forward to hearing from you but don’t feel hurried.
Best wishes.
no subject
Angel of the Crows
Seems we're on the same page when it comes to the refreshing-ness of the non-antisocial Holmes! I find it interesting that the "asshole genius" is the 'headcanon' media seems to have of Sherlock Holmes when he's nothing like that in the source material (eccentric, yes, and socially awkward at times, but never intentionally cruel or uncaring, only accidentally so at times). I guess it's the same as with the "Captain Kirk is a womanizing space cowboy"-headcanon that so many have aka it's something a handful of people interpreted long ago and then got shared with a lot of people who never saw (or don't quite remember) the source material until fanon trumps canon in most people's memory *shrug*
I really liked the angels' design and society too! Very much like fae re: the no-lying, yes! And concern was an emotion they inspired in me too. They seem kinda subservient to humans, and I a) want them to not have to be that, and b) have so many questions on how things ended up that way. Have angels existed as long as humans have? If so, what did they do before buildings or place names were a thing? Were they all Nameless?? ANGEL REVOLUTION WHEN?? XD
What irked me about the angels wasn't so much that they existed as it was that they existed _everywhere_ on the planet. Which means they've likely been around since pre-Christian times in a lot of places, even in places that in the real world have no mythology or religious figures with wings around. It's likely the narrow scope of the setting and Doyle's POV, but it took me out of the story a bit, inspiring questions like: Have angels existed as long as humans or longer/shorter? Are the angels called 'angels' in all parts of the world? Are there places without angels? How was the idea of them being representatives of X-religion introduced and when? Do angels actually claim to be messengers of a god (I don't think we got a clear answer to that in the book, but I might have missed it)? Etc etc.
Basically, while I didn't see the angels as meant to be "A Certain Type Of Christians Were Right All Along"-evidence, it felt like Addison took a mythological creature pretty specific to a certain number of cultures/places and then went "This is universal now". I'd feel the same if the book had gone "these creatures are called Valkyries and they exist all over the glob". Buuuut this might just be me overthinking things.
I had no idea Mormon angels don't have wings – thanks for sharing that!
Being Nameless, based on Crow's description, does indeed sound horrifying. Maybe not horrifying to start out as (seeing as the Nameless don't form memories) but losing all your memories and going _back_ to that? Yeah, no thanks!
Btw, what do you think truly triggers an angel to "Fall" and what happens to their personality? Are they basically themselves but Super Angry Now or do they go Nameless but join a separate, destructive "hive mind"? That sure is a part of the world building I'd love to see explored more!
I am such a sucker for vampires (yes, pun intended, I have no shame~) so I'm always happy to see some included! Having "Moriarty" be more than one person was an interesting take on things.
Re: The Final Problem - it's kinda funny to look back on the original story, because I definitely think Sir Conan Doyle was phoning it in by that point. If history is correct, he just wanted to get rid of Holmes, so it's no surprise to me that the antagonist he made up for killing him off was lackluster. New takes on Moriarty are always fun to read, mainly because he's such a nothing-character in the source material, but he can also be blown way out of proportion in his role in the story (looking at you BBC's Sherlock). I think this story kept a good balance of "Moriarty content".
As for the book's gender-situation, I can't but agree. I enjoyed that gender was such an important part of the narrative, but it also sent my mind spinning away from the mysteries and over to worldbuilding questions like: What happens if a vampire is trans? Or non-binary? Or genderfluid? Is this Vampire Queen thing a social or environmental thing? Does it work the same for vampires _everywhere_? Are there vampires on a global scale? So many questions!
I think Doyle's gender identity was left vague on purpose. I can't say if I think this is a good or bad choice on Addison's part, but I do think it's an active choice, to leave it up to the reader's analysis of the text. Doyle could definitely be either a trans man, a cis woman who finds life easier presenting as male in public, genderfluid or a number of other options. Plus, Doyle is a person of his time and culture – he might not even be sure himself, might not have a word for what he is, and thus can't express it even to himself (and thus not to us readers either). To draw a brief parallel to myself, while I kinda suspected I'd never fall in love since quite young years, it wasn't until I as an adult found the word "aromantic" that I realized never falling in love was a "real option". Maybe Doyle is in a similar place re: his gender identity?
The way I interpreted Crow's explanation of the angels all being "women" is that angels all start out with human-like anatomy that'd get them assigned female if a human doctor of that time took a look at them, but that that's only applicable to the Nameless. Angels with names seem to change, not only gaining a consciousness and wings but also physically changing in other ways. I got the impression that Crow implied he'd be assigned male if a human doctor took a look at him as he is now. As to why the Nameless present as male instead of female, I read that as them having adapted to human expectations. Humans know angels can be female or male, but I think the human bias of "women don't run around on their own" has nudged Nameless to present as male, to fit in and get more work. Who knows, maybe there are some female-presenting Nameless? Maybe the way Nameless dress changes with history and ideas of gender among humans?
As for the point of angels all starting out female presenting, I don't think it's meant to make us readers angry or amused. I think it's there so Crow can reassure Doyle that gender isn't about biology and that the society Doyle was raised in doesn't have the final say on how gender works. It'd be one thing if Crow went "oh I know about you, don't worry, I won't tell", but I think it's a firmer basis for their growing friendship that Crow can give Doyle clear evidence that gender is way more complex and constructed than what Doyle's been taught.
Re: the possible sexual assault
Based on Doyle's reaction to Crow's suggestion of them having sex and the reveal that Crow has had sex before, I don't think it was meant as a "funny misunderstanding". Sure, the "would things be better if we had sexual intercourse?"-line made me laugh in surprise, but that's where the humor ends for me. Doyle is clearly upset that someone's tricked Crow into having sex, which shows how Doyle is a good companion for Crow and will look out for him. At the same time, I can agree that the scene wasn't _necessary_ for their character development and it certainly had no bearing on the plot. This might be where the book's origin as a Holmes wing!fic shines through.
Now, was Crow the victim of a sexual assault? I think it's hard to say based on the info we've been given. Only the potential victim of such a crime can know that and we never find out what Crow's feelings truly are on the matter, pre- or post-reveal of the lie.
Doyle is clearly angry at the person who lied to Crow and seems to think of what happened as sexual assault. But that's all from _Doyle's_ POV. Crow was taken advantage of, based on his limited knowledge of the purpose of sex, but someone who's been fooled into having sex with someone else doesn't necessarily have to view themselves as a victim of sexual assault – and I don't mean that as in "they might be in denial about it", I mean that sex might not be that big of a Thing for them. Crow could be upset about the lie without the sex itself being an unpleasant or upsetting memory for him. The lies weren't about what would _happen_ to Crow during the sex act (as far as I can tell) it was about the _purpose_ of sex itself. While that _definitely_ counts as sexual assault, it could also be that Crow experiences it as "I had sex with a person who later turned out to be an awful human being" which sucks but isn't necessarily traumatic. So to me this situation can be interpreted both ways, but is a lot of very heavy subject matter to use as a throwaway line for character development :/
Also, while I think it makes sense for Doyle to think so, I would have liked Crow to have more of a reaction to him claiming having sex with angels is automatic sexual assault. That really takes away the angels' agency. Crow's situation is one thing, but _all_ angels being automatic victims doesn't sit right with me. Just like asexual humans can choose to have consensual sex, surely angels should be able to do the same?
Basically, I don't think that scene in any way is a joke, but I also think there could have been other ways to showcase the differences between how angels and humans see the world without getting sex and potential sexual assault involved as such a brief scene.
On to other things
Jack the Ripper has shown up in so much fictional media that to me he's reached the same level of pseudo-fictional as Napoleon. The Ripper was definitely a real person who hurt people for real but I've seen him in fiction so often half my brain interprets him and his victims as fictional at this point. Which is fucking awful, to be honest. Could definitely have done without yet another fictional take on the Ripper murders – it's bad enough when authors make Holmes take him on in books set in our world, whyyyyy must he be brought in to a secondary-world setting???
To me, this book felt like reading a really well-written Sherlock Holmes AU. I liked it too, but it didn't sweep me off my feet. Would have left a comment and a kudos on AO3, but probably wouldn't have bookmarked it, so to speak :)
I'd love to see this world's setting explored more though! Will see if this book makes the Yuletide nominations and if any interesting prompts for it pop up.
Man, I just adore The Goblin Emperor <3 To the point that I'm attempting a for-personal-use-only translation of it to Swedish so my mom can get to read and enjoy it XD It's just so cozy <3
The Witness for the Dead
Will definitely get back to you if I ever solve the page count mystery! So weird O_o
I think I went in to this book expecting it to be very different from The Goblin Emperor (from here on out shortened to GE), so it didn't disappoint me. I agree that the new characters didn't grab me like so many of the GE-cast did (I have so many GE favorites beyond Celehar - Maia! Csevet! Cala! And so on and so on), but like you said this book feels like the first third of a whole one. Maybe they'll get more engaging as things progress? We'll have to wait and see. I'd love to know more about all the friends Celehar seems unaware he has around the city. It'll be interesting to see if he realizes how many people actually care for him before the trilogy is out!
I ended up kind of okay with not being so invested in the new characters because 1) I was extremely invested in Celehar from page one, and 2) I slipped into my "reading a mystery story"-mode, where the plot and clues hold my attention more than the characters (which is weird of me because I usually focus way more on characters than on plot when I'm reading any other genre).
The ghouls utterly blindsided me! I don't know how we got through all of GE without the mention that Zombies Are Actually Real Here XD I didn't mind the ghouls so much, but I do have a ton of questions about how magic and supernatural things work in this world. The magic system is so soft I could make a comfy pillow out of it. While I don't hate soft magic systems, the potential limits and applications of GE's magic is so vague it frustrates me a bit. For me, this frustration goes back to GE. I mean, Cala can literally just gesture at someone and they die. How often can he do that??? Is there a cost to that magic??? What decides who can do what magic? And what myths are just myths here and what are real things – ghosts are around as frozen memories not actual lingering people but people who aren't remembered after death somehow turn into zombies??? SO MANY QUESTIONS!
Pel-Thenhior is definitely being set up as a love interest for Celehar and I'm kinda digging it. Pel-Thenhior is the one new character who won me over a bit, possibly because he got a fair amount of screen time and because he both delighted and discomforted Celehar so. But I hope there's way more character development before an actual romance gets going!
This book definitely wasn't like GE. I ended up really enjoying it, but I think that's at least partially because I went into it expecting it to be not!GE. Plus, I'm a sucker for stories about angsty detectives with magical powers, so it was right up my alley~
What are you hoping will happen in the next book to improve the reading experience for you? ...I hope that doesn't come off as confrontational XD I'm honestly just curious what you're hoping for in the next book, not judging your level of enjoyment of this one! Just because I liked a thing doesn't mean I think everyone should – that'd be like demanding everyone have the same favorite color as me or something equally absurd.
no subject
I am pleased that you are enjoying our discussion. I had worried that I might have written something off-putting. I am enjoying discussing these books as well. It is an excellent opportunity to clarify my own thoughts by writing about them, and I do not know if I would have another opportunity for discussion outside of this one.
Angel of the Crows
You raise excellent questions in regard to the nature of angels and the structure of their society. It makes me wonder when missionaries bring their mythos to new places do the mythical creatures come too? Maybe angels are not all over the world, just in places where the Abrahamic religions have spread—which even in this story’s timeline would be a lot of it. Maybe I am trying too hard to explain lax world-building.
I have no idea at all about the Fallen. I felt like that was one of the least developed parts of the story. It is also a part of the story that I did not look too hard at as I dislike binary ideas of good and evil. I do not think we have much information about the Fallen beyond them being destructive and formidable. We do not know their goals. If I remember correctly, and I may not because it has been some time since I finished the book, some humans were able to make alliances with them which suggests that they are capable of some higher-level thinking so that they are not purely destructive on all sides.
Your points about Doyle’s gender identity are valid. I just want to feel like the author has something specific in mind, even if Doyle would not have a way to define his identity given his historical perspective.
On the topic of angels and gender, you could very well be right in parsing the author’s intended meaning. But that just leaves me feeling more frustrated because sex and gender are not the same. I can see no merit in ascribing any sex to entities that do not reproduce sexually.
You are most likely right in that the meta-purpose of angels’ complex gendering is so that Crow can meaningfully reassure Doyle. However, that does not make the situation make sense from an in-world perspective.
** trigger warning, sexual assault ** I very much agree that viewing Crow’s experience as a sexual assault was Doyle’s perspective, not necessarily Crow’s. I don’t even think that Crow was necessarily intentionally lied to. A lot of people believe that having sex will fix a relationship.
And, yes, angels should be afforded the same degree of agency as humans. That’s why I thought of this as possible sexual assault. Either way, the heavy subject matter was not well-handled. ** end trigger warning **
Closely related to these ideas are your very fine questions about vampires and gender which the book does not begin to give us enough information to answer. In fact, the book seems to flirt with gender essentialism at times, in spite of (or including?) Doyle’s vague gender identity.
Your summation of this novel being a fic that you would comment on and leave kudos for on AO3 is perfect.
Off-topic, but I appreciated the nonfiction book The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper by Hallie Rubenhold.
The Witness for the Dead
While I went into the book knowing intellectually that it would be different from The Goblin Emperor, I definitely wanted to be reading The Goblin Emperor Part II. The Goblin Emperor is cozy, as you put it. It is as cozy as a cuddle. That is what I wanted from this book too. While it is an unfair expectation, it is an expectation born of The Goblin Emperor being just so damn good.
Part of me felt very much like a child crying for her favorite, much-beloved, soft teddy bear being given a hard plastic bear toy instead; which is likely a bigger view into my inner life than you wanted to have.
I recently completed yet another re-listen to The Goblin Emperor, so I decided to give The Witness for the Dead another chance and another listen as well. I did like it more on the second hearing. I am slightly fonder of some of the secondary characters, especially Anora.
However, I do not quite see “friends Celehar seems unaware he has all around the city” although I may be as blind as Celehar. While Anora is a friend, for the most part, I see the potential for allies all around the city which is not quite the same. I would like the story more if I saw things as you did.
I did not care for the plot. While the plot of The Goblin Emperor unfolded itself so gently that I almost did not realize it was happening, The Witness for the Dead seemed to trudge doggedly forward. I was also frequently annoyed or enraged on Celehar’s behalf which was not restful.
On the first read, I did not care enough about the mysteries to try to solve them because I was not remotely invested in the victims. Both of the murder victims seemed rather generic types. On second listen, knowing what happened, I concluded that the clues were not very good.
** Spoilers** Murder A was easily solvable because the only character we spent meaningful time with who was not Celehar’s future love interest was the murderer. Murder B was solved using magic. I felt beyond cheated.
I was also very annoyed that one of the murderers stopped to make a big speech that cleared everything up before killing himself. **End Spoilers**
The Witness for the Dead also seems to take place in a harsher world than The Goblin Emperor. In fairness to the book, I was in a harsh mood during both of my reading/listening experiences of The Witness for the Dead.
I was left wondering if part of the reason why there are so many likable characters in The Goblin Emperor is that we were seeing through Maia’s point of view and he tends to look on people with kind interest; or more unkindly, that people are more likely to be kind to their emperor, attempted coups aside.
One petty but persistent complaint that I have is that I detest giving a character the name Tura Olora because it is too similar to the lullaby “Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ral.” I could not read/hear one name without thinking of the other, and that felt so infantile and silly that it diminished my enjoyment.
I am appreciative of your lack of judgment about my response to this book. I know of individuals who would not only judge me on my preferences but attempt to deliver long and condescending lectures about why I am wrong.
For the next book, I am curious if it will be another mystery or if it will be in another genre. Do you happen to know?
I feel I would enjoy the next book more if more of the characters were given more detailed and tender attention. The attention paid to characters in The Witness for the Dead seemed quite utilitarian if not simply underdone.
For example, we are told that some of Subpraeceptor Azhanharad’s methods are brutal but we are never shown anything approaching that. While he disagrees with Celehar at one point, the disagreement seems to be on a matter principle that I can respect. Not agreeing with Celehar doesn't make Azhanharad a bad person. Also, he seemed eager enough to be supportive in matters that he could. So, I was left at a loss to understand Celehar’s dislike of him except that detectives are supposed to have contentious relationships with the police in mystery stories which was a deeply unsatisfying reason.
Another matter that would improve the next book would be having some answers to the many fine questions that you raise about the magic system...ahem...assuming they were answers I liked.
no subject
If you ever did say something off-putting (I don't think you will, but I'm using that hypothetical here to make sure I'm not too vague) I'd let you know right away, not leave you waiting five days for my reply. So definitely enjoying the discussions still :D Will hopefully get back to you with an actual reply sometime this week :)
no subject
no subject
I would like to hear more about how things happening at court are affecting people. How is the bridge-building going? What do people think of Maia as an emperor? I would love it if Csevet or someone else from The Goblin Emperor made a cameo.
I want to see more about people trying to shift the boundaries on gender. Compared to The Goblin Emperor, The Witness for the Dead did not tackle this very much and that made me sad because that was something I enjoyed.
I want to see more queerness and what living as a queer person is like in this reality.
I also want to see Pel-Thenhior get more development. Right now, Pel-Thenhior reads (to me)as a somewhat out-of-the-closet gay man who has a supportive mother. I could be wrong. That these are things about him that I have to assume rather than know about indicates how thinly drawn he is.
What we know for sure is that he is somewhat flamboyant and he loves the opera. All of this kind of reads like a gay cliche. I'd like to see him as a person.
In The Witness for the Dead the only person who gets to be a person is Celehar, and while he is a person that I like, that made the book a lonely read to me.
And, much as it may seem otherwise, I did not hate the book. I liked in a...*shrug* It's fine I guess... kinda way.
But that is one heck of a come-down compared with the other book in the shared universe.
Totally off-topic but I wanted to mention The Alchemy Wars trilogy just because it is another fantasy book (series) that I adore. It is an alternate history book and while not at all like goblin emperor in setting it is immersive and has some complex characters that give The Goblin Emperor vibes. The protagonist of the series is someone like Maia who tries very hard to be a good person in really challenging circumstances.
no subject
Angel of the Crows
That's a very interesting idea! I'd be more open to a world where the "real life" mythical creatures followed their "real life human counter parts" around the world. It'd just make more sense.
More exploration of what the Fallen are would definitely have been helpful for the story and the world-building both! I too ain't too fond of "all people who are X are Evil"-settings (like, orcs being Always Evil By Birth). I kept expecting more info about the Fallen to show up, since the opening seemed to foreshadow that the Fallen would be an important part of the story, and was left feeling a little snubbed by how irrelevant they turned out to be. I think it was implied that the Fallen had allied with "the enemy" in the Afghan war, but we didn't get any real details on that.
I hear you on the topic of Doyle's gender. To me, how it was handled in the book felt more like set-up for Doyle to go on a journey of self-discovery that we never get to see. Come to think of it, the whole book feels like it's setting up more than we get. It's what really brings the "fanfic feeling" to it. It feels like Addison is referring to a canon I'm not completely familiar with - kinda like reading a fic for a fandom I've only seen in passing.
Yeah, the whole "Angels are X sex/gender" discussion is a little muddled when it comes to figuring out what's the characters' POV and what's the author's message. Gender and sex definitely aren't the same thing, even though AU!Victorian London people wouldn't mention that - but then again, maybe "all Angels are female" somehow hints to how Angels reproduce??? I'm just spitballing here, but assuming there isn't a fixed number of Angels (seeing as how they haven't gone extinct despite some of them dying instead of going back to being Nameless) new Nameless must come from somewhere. Maybe the Nameless also are the Angels who make more Angels, thus making them "biologically female" in the eyes of the science of the time? Kinda like those reptile species that are "all female", parthenogenesis?
I agree that the meta-discussion VS works-in-world balance goes more meta than story-serving with the gendering of the Angels. It seems like Addison had a lot of Cool Ideas she wanted to include in this story, which might have worked better in a Holmes AU fic rather than in an original world, since she now has to focus on establishing the world, not just the changes she's made to it for this story.
Re: the possible sexual assault
While I agree possible sexual assault is a sensitive subject to include and that it wasn't handled well, I don't feel it was handled poorly either. Now, this is of course my own subjective experience, but while the scene had me pausing, it was in the "well, that could have been better" way, not in a "wow, that was terrible" way. With how quick an audience can be to curse the name of any creator who brings up sensitive subjects of any kind in their material, I feel that even clumsy attempts to bring up such topics in fiction are...not admirable but at least a little brave - I don't read any intention to harm or titillate in the way Addison brings up potential sexual assault, so I don't feel I can say "this absolutely should have been deleted". Then again, even as a survivor myself, I'm just one person with one opinion. I think this is why content warnings/tags could be helpful on books, like it's helpful on fics, to let people avoid this topic should they wish it.
On to other things
Yeah, again, this story feels a lot like a fanfic of a story I've not read. I still over-all enjoyed it, but better established world building and either cutting out or better explaining elements of it (like the Fallen, the gender politics of vampirism, Moriarty(s), etc.) would have made me enjoy it more.
Definitely adding The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper to my to-read list, thanks for the tip! They've got a copy at my local library :D
The Witness for the Dead
To me, The Goblin Emperor felt so much like Maia's story that I couldn't picture a story not from his POV being the same. And Celehar struck me as so terribly cynical in the first book, even after everything is resolved, that I think I was prepared for his POV being Very Depressing compared to Maia's XD
I don't think your reaction is childish or "wrong" in any way - it's the same reaction you get when you're biting into a piece of food you thought was X but turned out to be Y (like, something that looks like a piece of chocolate turning out to be strawberry flavored). Sometimes "this isn't what I thought it'd be" just automatically makes a thing not that great.
Glad you enjoyed it better the second time! Again, not that I think you're "wrong" in any way, just that it makes me happy to know you got to spend your listening/reading time having a good time :)
I should probably have phrased the comment about friends better. What I meant is that it's clearly Celehar's own choice, however unconscious, to not make close connections in the city. While there are definitely assholes in the story and people manipulating others, we also get to see a lot of "normal" people, like those helping to deal with the dirigible accident or the theater crowd. Celehar is clearly so used to court, where every conversation is about hidden politics, that he thinks of all people in such a way. That leaves the world around him seeming like a way more selfish and calculating place than it really is (because we already know Maia managed to become a true Emperor through trusting people and making friends in this same world). To me, The Witness for the Dead feels like the first third of The Goblin Emperor, where Maia doesn't know who he can trust - but we're seeing it through Celehar's far more cynical and self-isolating personality instead of Maia's frightened yet hopeful one. I'm hoping for some character development on Celehar's part in the next book! I want to watch him form his own group of trusted friends <3
Oh yeah, this was definitely not a book about Plot XD Since I went into it expecting the same thing as The Goblin Emperor, aka a very subtle plot and mostly character moments, I think I ended up enjoying it despite all the flaws in the supposed "mysteries" of the book. Because I agree, the mysteries aren't all that interesting in themselves. Btw, I saw someone comment that they felt The Witness for the Dead makes more sense to them knowing Addison wrote The Angel of the Crows right before it. Might have been an influence?
I think you've hit on exactly why this book's world seems so harsh - Celehar's POV! Celehar is a man who's had to put his own lover to death. He has a job that always involves the dead, especially those who've died in terrible ways. When you have a job where you're constantly faced with the worst parts of humanity (elfmanity?), a job that's generally not well-respected, especially if you've had other terrible experiences, I think it makes sense that Celehar experiences the world as a grim and dark place. My hope is that the subsequent books lead to character development, both when it comes to making friends and in realizing the world is a better place than he thinks.
I'm not familiar with that lullaby, but I know that feeling. There's been more than one time when a "made up fantasy word" has turned out to be an actual Swedish word, or close to it, and that is Very Distracting.
I actually really like talking about books with people who've had a different experience of them than me! As long as said other person's opinions aren't outright bigoted (which yours definitely aren't!) I think it's rewarding to discuss books with someone who doesn't 100% agree with me :)
I haven't heard much about the next book in the series. Will keep an eye out for news!
I get what you're saying about the character details. My memory is shaky - how detailed were the descriptions in The Goblin Emperor? I recall the impressions of the not-Maia characters to be fairly utilitarian to start out with. Though that could be my memory being influenced by this sequel book. Somehow, I feel that The Witness for the Dead might turn out to be more like The Goblin Emperor when we've got all the three books. That could of course just be hopeful thinking ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Btw, if I haven't already recommended it, if you want something with the same feel good atmosphere as The Goblin Emperor, I recommend Hands of the Emperor by Victoria Goddard! It's such a cozy cozy book <3
And yeah, more info on the magic system, character cameos, and world building would be more than welcome! I'd really like a scene where Maia or someone else "impressive" ends up attending Pel-Thenhior's opera as a sign of support for the political message in it, especially if said person also shows friendliness towards Celehar <3
Pel-Thenhior definitely feels like "I'm openly queer, deal with it". Maybe I'm just filling in the blanks, but I get a feeling that I know Pel-Thenhior as a person. He's clearly very passionate about his work, he's clearly very political and pro-workers rights, but a realist who knows he can't push too far too fast. Maybe I've painted a picture of him in my head that's not supported by the text, but I ended up liking him. I can "deal" with the flamboyant-queer-man stereotype being used because 1) the theater has historically been a refuge for queer people, and 2) all other queer characters we've had confirmed in the story have been Not That (Celehar himself, his former lover, the blackmailed theater girl didn't come off as "super butch" or anything like that, the queer couple at the ball at the end of The Goblin Emperor etc).
I see what you mean. Again, maybe I'm just good at filling in the blanks, but I ended up liking a few characters other than Celehar, but I'm also terrible at remembering names so my examples will sounds super vague XD Like, I enjoyed the girl whose biological grandfather wanted to get in contact with her, I like the almost-friend Celehar has as a pseudo-college, I like Pel-Thenhior and his mom, I like the old lady who lives at the boarding house, etc. I look forward to hopefully getting to know them more in future books!
Adding The Alchemy Wars to my to-read list!
no subject
I don't think that my not connecting to the book/characters means you are good at filling in blanks and I am bad at it.
Cozy isn't usually what I look for in a book but the description of Hands of the Emperor that I read on Amazon was interesting. My local library doesn't have a copy. Maybe I can get an interlibrary loan.
no subject
I didn't mean to imply you were bad at filling in blanks, because I don't think you are, but I see how my words came across like that due to poor formulation. My apologies. What I meant is that I think I might unconsciously fill in the blanks about characters and thus not notice there are any blanks until someone else points them out. The "I'm good at filling in blanks" wasn't meant as "This is a great skill I have" but as "This is a thing I do without noticing".
Keeping my fingers cross that you get an interlibrary loan!